I found some words

I realize that hardly anyone reads my site and, that I am preaching to the converted but, I figured I’d point to an editorial that more or less encapsulates my views on yesterdays events.

In the wake of the attacks on the World Trade Center, Pentagon and Pennsylvania, some officials and media pundits have advocated policy that is certain to haunt future generations.

Will fervor and panic drive us to give the FBI and CIA totalitarian powers? Are we really ready to go to war over this? And I mean real war, not some video game. I mean bayonets, POWs, internment camps and nightly body counts. If we start doing this, those responsible for yesterdays attacks will have won and gained the moral high ground. How are terrorists created? What has the United States done to make people that angry?

Before the United States engages in another bout of cruise missile diplomacy, let’s think about the consequences that such an action may entail.

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6 Responses to I found some words

  1. well Farlops it may be that you think you are preaching to the converted, but you are not preaching to the choir. That is to say that while I agree in general with your sentiments, I do not think I agree with all of them. I personally do not wish to see an increase in the powers of the FBI and the CIA or any curbing of the freedoms in the west that we still enjoy. However, while I am generally somewhat of a peacenik, I can tell you that yes I do want revenge and I want justice. No of course this does not mean cruise missile diplomacy- this would truly accomplish nothing- it would certainly not punish those responsible nor would it meet the demands of America’s people. Nothing short of a major engagement will do this. I think you underestimate the psychological impact that this event has had. And yes I do believe that the genie is out of the bottle- yes the people of America do now have the will, politically and socially to wage an all-out war against ‘the enemy’… so who is the enemy- well unfortunately this is obviously not going to be one person, or group of persons.Indeed it is many groups of persons living in many different nations. The world changed yesterday. This War will not be fought only on one front- nor will it be over in a matter of weeks, or even months.. it is likely that it will last for many years and perhaps even for our lifetimes… this may sound paranoid but I have many reasons for believing so. Assuming for a moment that it is infact the Al Qaida network of Bin Laden that is responsible, and that officials can gather enough evidence to say so definitely then time is running short for Afghanistan. If they do not hand this asshole over to us VERY soon, you can bet that there will be a MAJOR strike against that country. It has already begun- Pakistan’s repeated almost frantic assertions of support for the US and the fight against terror are writing on the wall. All foreign aid workers have been withdrawn from the country. İt will begin with bombing of course- but that will definitely not be enough— ground troops? definitely… in recent conflicts, even the Gulf war there was fear that the American people didnt have the political will to engage in a conflict that would result in body bags… well I got news for ya buddy, they are already counting the body bags. They are laid out on a major highway in Washington DC and in the decimated remains of the world’s former financial headquarters. Believe me the political will is there and in spades. The War has already begun. An it is likely that the front line will no longer be NYC but central Asia. I think that if necessary the administration will not bat an eye at overthrowing the Taliban government. And before we start hearing this Vietnam shit again remember that this is not the cold war. Of course the states and NATO (if necessary) will not go into Afghanistan without the explicit support of Russia- but you can bet we will get it. The former Soviets (of whom Putin is a scion) have their own score to settle there. There has already been considerable collaberation against Taliban in recent months between Russia and the US. Do you really think that Vietnam could have held out against a sustained attack without Chinese assistance?
    So the Afghans held off the Soviet empire… big deal… they did it with our help. Where will the Taliban get such help? From Pakistan? They would not dare.
    So I have to admit that from that vantage point the thing that scares me most is the possibility of a civil war in Pakistan- indeed that is and will be a real possibility… but that is only the beginning of where things get tricky… because of course the trail of blood does not and will not begin and end in Afghanistan. There are many players in this game- as many as there are İslamic militant groups engaged in terror, from Islamic Jihad to Hezollah. What many people fail to recognize is that we effectively declared war on all these groups yesterday… and it was repeated emphatically that we would not rest until we had driven this evil from the world. Bush said it, Blair said it, Powell said it and NATO gave the thumbs up. In effect yesterday a new Crusade has begun. This is where things begin to get really ugly. A line has been drawn in the sand and the west has asked ‘which side are you on?’… Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were both quick to claim solidarity and shared desire for an end to terror. Iraq of course was the only country to openly declare their hatred- fools. Why have we not yet heard from Syria, Jordan, Egypt and the other Arab states. Even Qadaffi had the sense to immediately offer support- even he can see the writing on the wall- after all Libya has only just recently been freed from more than a decades worth of ınternational sanctions and pariahhood- they know what to expect. But the fact is that we are going to find the heads of the hydra are hiding under rocks in all of the Arab states- and the military and the intelligence community is going to go ruthlessly after these assholes… and God help whoever gets in their way… or as John McCain said yesterday ‘May God have mercy on them because we will not’. This is a fact- not a threat. The World is at war. The World changed yesterday- irrevocably. It wont be a few angry Arabs and clerics who get convicted and thrown in jail- we are after the whole cow. I really wish all of this were not true… honestly I hope that I am wrong.. I hope that they arrest a few people and think better of it and go about their business and nothing like this ever happens again.. but the world doesnt work that way I am afraid. They are going to go after these guys and they are going to use everything they’ve got. You know I am sure that it is not the majority of Palestinians who were in the streets cheering at the news on worldwide TV- but it was enough. You can bet that the trail will lead to the Palestinian communities- especially to groups like Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbollah. One thing is for sure- there will be no peace in Palestine for a long time to come. I am sure that Arafat was genuinely shocked by all of this as were the vast majority of people- but nevertheless we all saw those assholes dancing in the streets with their guns flaring and their cheering hateful brainwashed children… there are hate schools in the Palestinian territories where they teach kids to be suicide bombers- are these places likely targets of western retribution as well?
    well anyways I could rant on indefinitely about all of this.. as I say I hope that I am wrong about all of this but I dont think so. I think world history changed yesterday and that we are indeed at war. And I believe we do have the political and social will to carry through with our resolve… only I dont know how far it will carry and I dont know that we will even find a target solid and stationary enough for our troops to take sight at.
    But I am sure that Osama Bin Laden in a world court (or more likely and preferably with his head on a pike mounted on the city wall) will be enough to put this chapter of the ongoing conflict between east and west to rest (at least from our perspective)…
    you know the Taliban think they are superheroes for driving out the Russians… they are proud of saying noone has ever successfully invaded Afghanistan.. they think they are chosen by God and are inviolate… yesterday the Taliban spokesman asserted in their denial of Bin Laden’s involvement that any western action against them would result in more of the same… this can be perceived as nothing other than a veiled threat. Their recent rebuffs of all normal diplomatic protocol, their obvious didain for civilization as we know it, their fanatic and barbaric abuse of their own people and total diregard for democratic principles, their insistence that there can be no human values which come before their dictatorial religious precepts, their constant limitations of their peoples freedoms and civil rights including a ban on music, dance, kiteflying, literature, arts and education, their shutting down of humanitarian aid projects including hospitals and food distribution in the face of massive starvation and drought- all of these things are reasons enough to overthrow these mediaeval throwbacks- they rule by terror so why should we expect them not to support it especially when it supports their twisted religious beliefs.. in short FUCK the TALİBAN…
    yes there will be casualties
    yes it will be difficult
    But we can beat these assholes
    we have the will
    we have the political resolve
    and we have the 82nd airborne

  2. Baka says:

    The Crusades is right. I agree with everything Lord Odinmank said, the Taliban should be prepared to be deserted by Allah. Every country with a terrorist problem now has a blank check to take care of it without the usual world scrutiny. Human rights will be ignored by the most civilised of nations. But that is what war entails, I don’t object to it, sometimes you need to step back in order to move forward. Pakistan has agreed to the four terms we demanded of them, (no more fuel, closed border, overflight, no financial support) but are trying to placate the Taliban’s threats to make war on any neighbor that allows Americans to fly over or stage attacks, by insisting that no Pakistani troops will participate. Of course they will have their own troubles, as they can’t expect to hold on to the disputed Kashmir territories against India if they are being bombed into submission by the US. India must be pleased about this, and I would expect them to move the minute we determine that Pakistan is not behaving themselves. At the same time, as Lord O. mentioned they will have to deal with an internal uprising of pro-radical Muslims in their own country and terrorist reprisals from the Taliban.
    Iraq can expect to be taken care of finally, and hopefully we can kill all the fucked in the head clerics in Iran, so that they can be a “real” democracy. In the mean time Russia will step up their movements into Chechnia and punishingly subdue all the .*stan’s Muslim extremists. Nobody will complain if they get a little sloppier than normal about it. For that matter expect the Phillipines to get all kinds of military assistance in hunting down and killing every Muslim male over 14 in their country. China to push into their Eastern provedinces, killing the Muslim troublemakers with impunity. No one will have to worry about human rights abuses, this aught to get interesting.
    The thing that is making me sick, is not that every Muslim is going to get a hard looking at (if not a stiff kick in the balls.) It is that all the fucking Christians are trying to use this tragedy to shove God down our throats. All the god damn Television stations showing prayer this and God bless that. Bush and his “National day of Prayer.” The fucking Christians are treating this like the Crusades, they want us to wipe the Muslims off the face of the planet. I want them gone too, but only if they take all the other fucking religions with them. What bullshit, the Religious right blames the gays and ACLU for the attack. “God doesn’t like to be mocked.”, They said. Well fuck them and their pathetic belief in stupid non-entities. I don’t mind being strip searched to fly somewhere, or having every email I write scanned. I don’t even mind if everyone who even looked Arabic had to go through hours of questioning if it means that the US is safe from these idiots. I just don’t want to see the god damn Christians pushing through prayer in schools or other stupid nonsense, just because no one wants to seem “unpatriotic”.
    Human liberties will be suspended, our right to privacy is gone for the time being. We will worry about that later, right now we have a war to fight. A lot more innocent lives are going to be lost, but who gives a fuck? America doesn’t like to be mocked, it’s time to play God.

  3. Pace Arko says:

    Perhaps I should have said it a different way. Please understand that I am not saying we shouldn’t go after those responsible.
    I am just very concerned that in our rush for reprisal, that we don’t end up making things worse. Yes, get those responsible. Yes, destroy the infrastructure that allow these terrorists to operate. Yes, seek help all our allies and countries that want to aid us.
    But at the same time, we must work reduce and remove the grievances and anger that allow these extremists to find converts to their cause. If most people feel that they are being treated fairly and justly, these criminals will be much easier to isolate and they won’t be able to find support.
    Go and get these bastards! But at the same time work to remove the causes of their emergance.

  4. Pace Arko says:

    Actually a flaw in my own reasoning just came to me. It’s entirely possible that they could are just be evil, insane or amoral opportunists, like the KKK or skinheads.
    On the whole, most folks in the States feel some stake in the system. We are stable and most are economically well off, yet the KKK persists. Bored, ignorant teenagers still spraypaint swastikas on synagogues. Why? Because they are evil and criminal. They don’t represent any legitimate grievances. There are no oppressed masses that they can claim to be fighting for. They are just thugs. And they should be treated as criminals.
    Okay, I partially retract what some of what I said. But I hope you both can understand some of my concern. We must be careful to maintain the high ground.

  5. Baka says:

    As it has already been made clear, there is no way to mollify these stupid fucking assholes. They want you and I dead, we can not give them money, feed their poor, build them houses, air drop sheep or anything else. They will not stop until we or they are dead, I choose them. The are afraid that our existance in the world will cause a demand to educate their women, create a real govenmment, ban polygamy and end the ridiculios tribalism and drug cartels.
    Do you know why Pakistan supports them? Due to a 100 year old treaty, Pakistan is to hand over almost half of their territory to Afghanistan. As the deadline approached they decided to sponsor the Taliban as a pro Pakistani government who wouldn’t push for the turn over of the territory. Along with Pakistan’s apperently terroristic occupation of Kashmir, I wouldn’t mind them getting a little ass kicking too.

  6. Pace Arko says:

    Please understand that none of the positions I’ve taken so far prevents military action. All I’ve asked for is that we be careful, preventative and constructive when we hunt down these groups. I believe that is a valid comment to make and I am not backing down from it. Gung-ho revenge, while understandable from an emotional standpoint, is not going to solve things. Executing the lastest favorite on the bad guy hit parade is not going to be enough.

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